In general, ReTracker Bliss seems to be the better option. Better precision , more robust and more flexible. The drawback compared to the Vive Mars is that the system doesn’t come complete with everything you’ll need. You need to get a suitable long, powered USB 3 extender or connect it to a mini PC in close proximity to the camera to send try e tracking data over Ethernet. Still, with the lower pricing of the Bliss, the total price would still come out lower than with the Vive Mars. 

And yes, tracking can definitely be negatively affected if the Vive Base stations move even minimally. If they’re not mounted to a 100% stable surface (like a concrete wall) you can also get additional jitter.

Hello,

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with me and your knowledge has helped me a lot. I will buy the ReTracker Bliss. I had heard from a business partner that they had calibration problems as the sensors were attached to a truss and had expanded due to the heat of the lamps in the studio. If anyone has any further questions, I can also give feedback and share my experiences with the Retracker Bliss.  I will do the first tests in about 4 weeks. There are also small fanless mini-pcs, I have also ordered one and am now very excited to try it out soon. 

Thank you again for your help.

Best regards

Make sure you get a mini PC that is confirmed to have enough power to run Bliss. Not all of them do. While more expensive, you might consider an Asus ROG Ally instead. The main benefit is that it comes with a very good screen that you can use to get a return feed from Aximmetry via NDI. You can also set it up to control Aximmetry via the buttons and gamepads, if you tinker with it a bit. Finally it has WiFi-6 which could send the tracking data wirelessly on a dedicated network. 

I think it's a brilliant idea.

Using the Asus ROG Ally as a display and also assigning the buttons sounds great.

Is that how you do it? I would also be interested to know what functions you have assigned to the buttons. 

The only problem I would have is that my Aximmetry PC is about 40 metres away from the camera and there's a wall in between. So it will be difficult to transfer the data via wifi. Do you have any ideas on how to solve this? Unfortunately I have no experience with NDI, so I would be grateful for any suggestions. 

I had thought of this mini PC because the developer said that any Celeron PC can also transfer the data.

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0CG5FFVJB?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

It also has a display and is fanless.

But that will probably be difficult with the live video feed from Aximmetry, right?

The linked mini PC should be fine, but it’s hard to tell if it would be able to handle both NDI and the Bliss tracking. A fair bit of the Bliss tracking is done on the CPU and not the hardware, so it might be cutting it close on lower end hardware. 

I’ve only done controller mapping with the similar Steam Deck mini computer and I don’t remember exactly, but it involves using a virtual USB over network device from here:

https://www.virtualhere.com/https://www.virtualhere.com/

With a client/server setup, your computer running Aximmetry should see the game controller on the Ally as a locally connected USB device and in Aximmetry you can add a Game Device input node to map it to different functions. That’s the basics of it, at least. Might be a better option available like mapping the game controller directly to a program that converts it to OSC and use OSC in Aximmetry instead. Couldn’t get it to work on the Steam Deck, but the Rog Ally might have more generic game pad drivers.

You would have a WiFi 6 access point in the studio in direct line of sight to the camera and the access point would be connected directly to your Aximmetry computer (if you have a free network port). If you don’t need a wireless rig I would still advise against it and recommend just using Ethernet to avoid adding extra complexity and failure points to the system. But it’s a viable solution if you need it. 

Aximmetry can receive and send NDI. Start with downloading the free NDI Tools and do some googling. It’s very easy and there’s lots of information available out there. 

Hi @thecolorzero

we just bought the Vive Mars System and I'm setting it up as we speak. They have implemented a new fast and easy "Reset Tracking Volume" feature, which recalibrates the system. So far I love it. First tests have been super great. Easy and precise (at least for our needs - video Broadcasts).
Everthing worked out-of-the-box. Excellent work from HTC.

ps: we have our base stations mounted on robust light stands. When I had to move something a bit, I just start my recalibration process and 5 minutes later everything is tracking precise again.

@mahankel: Recalibration doesn’t solve the jittering issues you’ll often get from micro vibrations of the base stations when mounted on a truss. I know they’ve implemented filtering to remove the jittering when the camera is completely stationary, but that filtering can cause issues itself with smooth, slow camera moves. I feel that the Vive Mars is a great, well thought out system that is limited by the low precision of the tracking hardware itself. It was made for VR gaming and not to handle the precision required for camera tracking. 

TwentyStudios - Your ideas are really brilliant. Thank you. I will now try it out with the small mini PC and also try the return feed via NDI. I will give you feedback here again in about 4 weeks and can then tell you if it works with the small Celeron computer that the tracking data and also the live feed is displayed via NDI. I will also try to connect the VirtualHere version to a small stream deck. 

If the PC is too slow I will try it with the Asus Rog Ally. 

Your idea is really great and opens up new possibilities.

Thanks again for the tip.

@mahankel 

Thanks for your input too.

But since I want to stream live it is not possible for me to recalibrate the system during a live broadcast. TwentyStudios also mentioned the jittering problem again. I would have to mount the sensors on a truss for space reasons, which is why I have the problem that the truss will expand a few millimetres due to the heat in the studio. that's why the Retracker Bliss system is very interesting for me. But if the Vive Mars works well for you, that's great too. I think everyone has to do what suits their working environment best.

@TwentyStudios - Thanks alot for explaining the jittering issues with on truss mounted basestations. I am very happy to have this forum here, so that beginners like me can get in touch with virtually production-proven people like you who have already gained a lot of experience. I'm looking forward to post my experiences in this forum.

@thecolorzero - absolutely right. My particular area of operation is completely different than yours. It is great, that we are able to choose from so many solutions in this field. I hope you get your virtual production system up and running soon.

@TwentyStudios

I will follow your advice and buy a rog Ally too. Do you know if the Z1 version is enough or the extreme version is better to receive a 1080p 50 picture via NDI ?

I discovered today that there is a small docking station for the rog Ally including an Ethernet port. That means you could simply transfer everything via Ethernet. 

https://www.amazon.de/iVANKY-Ethernet-Docking-Station-Kompatibel-Tarnish/dp/B0CGWM48LS/ref=asc_df_B0CGWM48LS/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697184380043&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7356067095500978590&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1004607&hvtargid=pla-2198349887519&psc=1&mcid=f7ff7f2451423624bfe3e2162d1e0d28&th=1&psc=1&gad_source=1

Thanks again for the brilliant tip.

I think this is a good solution with a fast processor and good display in one. 

Sounds like a good plan! Make sure to test the docking station properly with the Bliss within your return window, since they’re not all equal. The Bliss is quite particular with power and bandwidth requirements, so the USB ports must be able to deliver proper power. You’ll also probably need to power the Ally externally via USB power bank or the included wall plug to make everything run smoothly. You might want to look into a docking station that has an USB C input. A good, high quality USB C to C cable rated for USB 3.2 data bandwidth is recommended. One is included with the Bliss but you’ll probably want a longer one depending on your rig. I haven’t tried this dock, but I’ve used another hub with the Steamdeck from the same manufacturer and that has worked flawlessly:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B0CS6BWL4Q/ref=sspa_mw_detail_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParamshttps://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B0CS6BWL4Q/ref=sspa_mw_detail_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

Just to clarify, I was talking about the Valve Steamdeck and not the Elgato Stream Deck. But if you just need triggers, you could certainly connect a Stream Deck to the Ally and control Aximmetry via Stream Deck Companion (also running on the Ally). Then you wouldn’t need to mess with the virtual USB drivers at all. The (experimental) virtual USB setup is only if you want to use the controller buttons and joystick on the Ally directly with Aximmetry. 

There’s lots of fun stuff you can do with the Aximmetry NDI return feed. One simple setup could be to add a Video Switcher module before the NDI Output module. Then you could add the clean camera video, the keyer matte output, a focus peaker setup (using the Edge Detect module and blending the output over the camera feed), a false color LUT output for setting exposure and so on. Then you can just assign triggers from the Stream Deck or Ally buttons to switch between them. 

I think that the regular Ally will probably be enough, but most reviews recommend the Extreme version for its better price/performance ratio. 

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress! 

Hi,

Just to add to this, with handheld computers like the ROG Ally and Steam Deck, you can easily access your studio computer's Aximmetry Control Boards by using the handheld’s browser. You can find more information on this feature here: https://aximmetry.com/learn/virtual-production-workflow/preparation-of-the-production-environment-phase-i/setting-up-inputs-outputs-for-virtual-production/external-controllers/using-web-server-to-remote-control-aximmetry-from-a-web-browser/ 
(Note, this feature requires a Professional or Broadcast license and it is experimental with some limitations)

Warmest regards,

Thanks Eifert, that’s brilliant! Totally forgot about that.

@TwentyStudios

Thank you for the helpful tips.

I also have a docking station from Anker for my Macbook and it has been running super stable for years.

So I will try it out and report back to you.

I think I will try the Virtual USB Drivers first to use the buttons on the Ally. Otherwise I'll have another device attached to the camera.

The functions via NDI sound really great and that's exactly why I decided in favour of the Ally thanks to you.

How did you actually mount your Ally?

@Eifert

That's also a mega cool function.

I am always amazed at what is possible in Aximmetry :)

Thanks for the tip too.